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10 August 2008

Comments

andrew jones

Hi LeRon. Good article and i like the framework. I guess its an American audience you are writing for which explains why all your examples are american and not, for example, from Norway (I preached at Subchurch in Oslo once).

I would add the the word "emergent" is not an american word and i dont like the idea of it, and everyone who has used the word around the world over the last few decades, to be somehow colonized or at least coloured by Emergent Village, but i do appreciate your wider definition of "emerging church" a term that we are currently wondering if we should keep or not.

LeRon

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for those comments... one of my goals was to make the American audience aware of the growth of this kind of community globally so I probably should add some other examples.

I feel ambivalent about the term "emergent" too... although it can be taken in a narrow sense, most of the people I know at the "village" don't mean it to be exclusive or colonizing.

What I do like about the term is that it can be connected to philosophical and scientific models of emergent complexity, which in my view provide a more dynamic and open metaphysical and conceptual framework for contemporary theological reflection on issues like the nature and task of "the church."

Craig Mathison

LeRon,

Great article. I think you accurately touch on some ways in which truly emergent churches are not simply updating facades, but deeply questioning underlying structures. And they don't lead with creed, but with relationship. That plays out in their ad hoc theological approaches, and, as you accurately point out, their hospitality.

I found your use of "reconstructive theology" also very helpful. You accurately point out the first step of reconstruction is deconstruction. But this "demo" of theology is not at all nihilistic. Rather, it is pounding on every pillar to see how sound it truly is and rethinking the engineering with an updated understanding of stress, loads, spans, etc. While the terms "reformist" and "emergent" are now somewhat tainted, "reconstructive" is fresh, descriptive and evocative.

Thanks for your good work.

len

It's interesting to run your piece up against Snyder's work in Decoding the Church. Also intriguing, running your observations on the willingness and benefit to enter a creative commons with the other in order to find new ways forward thru the lens of Wilfred Drath in The Deep Blue Sea. He argues for a "third principle" of leadership when tasks require embracing multiple worldviews and honoring each for their unique contribution. For a summary of his arguments to that point see my last post at Allelon Missional Journey blog.

LeRon

Craig,

Very encouraging feedback... you captured my intentions perfectly! ;)


Len,

Thanks for these references, neither of which I knew beforehand.


I checked out both of your blogs - very interesting!

Best wishes on your work,

LeRon

Tony Mills

LeRon-
I am only vaguely familiar with the emerging church, but I was curious if you have read anything about the New Monasticism and, if so, is it at all related to the emergent movement? These really are not well-informed questions, since I am too busy reading comic book stuff, but I am hearing things in the air and am wondering if you have an opinion on the matter.

Mike

LeRon!
Great article!

Hey: wasn't it Cyprian, not Augustine, who initiated extra ecclesiam nulla salus? Help me out here!

Re: apostlicity and tradition. Spot on here. I am recalling, though, that plenty of academic missiology from the 80's and the 90's- heck, throw in Roland Allen, too!- has often endorsed embedded models of praxis. On the one hand, the models attempted to guard against the very dangers of preserving traditions in other cultural contexts. On the other hand, the models advocated a critical openness to receiving from one’s or another’s culture. I'd guess-really, only a guess- that some of that influence, e.g., the late Paul Hiebert, participates in the embedded model you describe.

Your thoughts?

LeRon

Hi Tony,

I've only heard a little about the new monasticism, but I know that at least some self-described groups would also associate with the general values of the emerging church movement. Or so I've heard. Of course, it would have to be a quite "new" and different kind of monasticism to fit my "other" four ecclesial marks.

Hi Mike,

Hmmm... good question about the source of the quote, I'll have to double check that one. :) In relation to your observation that earlier models have also had these other marks, I quite agree. Actually, we could trace them back to the apostles. I didn't mean to suggest that the church has been marked always and only by the big four of the creed until the emerging movement, but that often (too often in my view), and even with the apostles (Peter, for example) these big four squeezed out the other four.

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