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09 February 2007

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Jacob

LeRon, do I (mis)understand you right that your view of purgation is only "relational" or sociological? I see this dimesion too and love your point: "My true self is yet to be discovered, is being discovered, as I allow my "self" to be found only in and by God."

Blaise Pascal mentioned once, that the biggest terror a human beeing is facing in his life, "is being lonely in a quit room, thats why people are searching for dispersion (Ger. Zerstreuung)". I think, that´s the point in "The Cloud of Unknowing".

But I see another dimension of purgation too - the inwarldy. Let me give an examlpe:

Somebody hurt and treat you unjustly. The relation is broken and needs to be reconciled - thats Your point, LeRon! But at the same moment hate, anger and many other very bad feelings (and also "natural manners") emerge from my heart or soul. And before I have to deal with reconciliation, I must deal with my "inward beeng" what you would call "stained substance".

Few years ago I read a book about the persecution in china. The title was: "And gold doesn't fear the fire". And I see this process of "purification" as a real big deal within our souls dito. I realize that every incident in my life is artwork of my father to clean my gold to better reflect and being part of His glory.

Andrew Arndt

Fascinating

One of the things that I appreciate so much about this blog is that it really is an experiment in discovering whether or not what you're saying in this post is really true or possible ... and I have been pleasantly surprised to find that it is! The manner of civility and of friendly, open, honest discourse that I find here--a discourse that is free, so it seems, from the usual fear and suspicion you typically find in discussions of a theological nature--is inspiring and always reminds me that communal contemplation of God is and should be a (terrifying) delight...

Thanks for making this blog a place of shalom

Jacob Wiebe

LeRon here is the original German quotation on Blaise Pascal:

Pensée Nr.622

"Nichts ist dem Menschen so unerträglich, als wenn er sich in vollkommener Ruhe befindet, ohne Leidenschaften, ohne Beschäftigungen, ohne Zerstreuungen, ohne Betriebsamkeit.

Dann fühlt er seine Nichtigkeit, seine Verlassenheit, seine Unzulänglichkeit, seine Abhängigkeit, seine Ohnmacht, seine Leere.

Sogleich werden vom Grunde seiner Seele die Langeweile, der Trübsinn, die Traurigkeit, der Kummer, der Verdruss und die Verzweiflung aufsteigen."

PS: Pensées - Nummerierung nach Lafuma

Kent

Leron -

Greetings from Aberdeen Leron. This is Kent, the doctoral student working on Pannenberg who contacted you a couple months ago.

Knowing of your interest in and contribution towards Pannenberg studies, I cannot help but hear echoes of his consistent emphasis on the "provisionality" and "debatability" of theological truth claims, and creeds.

From ST I:
"The conditionality of all subjective certainty is part of the finitude of human experience. To claim unconditional independent certainty is forcibly to make oneself, the believing "I", the locus of absolute truth (47)...Recognizing the finitude and inappropriateness of all human talk about God is an essential part of theological sobriety"(55). (I like that bit about theological humility).

As I teach and interact with others serious about theological thought and life, I wonder how one "identifies" these tendencies? What are the red flags that should signal someone that they are falling into the trap of "holding onto" their theological constructions to tightly?

Kent

LeRon

Jacob,

I would agree with you that purgation involves both dimensions, what are often called the outwardly and inwardly.

But I do not think this division is so easily made in contemporary psychology. My sense of self, or intra-relational psychic dynamics, or mediated to me in time and space in and through my relations with others.

There obviously IS a difference between me and others, or between my relation to self and my relations to others, but the differentiation is not simply quantitative, nor does it have clear boundaries.

Kierkegaard describes the self as a relation that relates itself to itself in the relation as it relates to others (Sickness Unto Death, first paragraph). Transformation of these relations is transformation of the self AS it relates to itself and to others.

I try to spell this out in more detail in TS, chapter 2, and RTA, Parts I and III.

LeRon

Dear Andrew,

Thanks so much for that!

I very much hope that this (cyber)space will become (or remain) a hospitable and peaceful place.

I confess my own anxiety about this... there have been posts, and I'm sure there will be more, to which I have been tempted to respond... shall we say, less than non-violently! ;)

So this ongoing conversation provides a context in which I am also experiencing purgation!

I should also say that I think there are situations in which a discourse can have the wrong kind of peace, i.e., a peace that is shallow and not disturbing... that does not open itself up to purgation. I hope this space does not fall into that trap either.

LeRon

LeRon

Hi Kent,

So nice to hear from you!

As I reflect on it, my experience of reading the mystics and contemplatives and the apophatic tradition, etc., probably prepared me to be attracted to Pannenberg's emphasis on provisionality, and to begin to resist the way in which (SOME) Barthians appeal to self-authenticating "dogmatic" claims, which seemed structurally similar to the fundamentalists of my youth. (It strikes me that Pannenberg and Barth scholars may find that humorous, for several reasons).

Your pedagogical question is fascinating. I don't think there are hard and fast rules for identifying such flags. Of course some modes of fundamentalism are easy to diagnose! But ultimately the problem has to be self-identified or the process of transformation cannot really begin.

But we can try to mediate that self-discovery. This is why I try to emphasize fear and desire in relation to each theological loci. Sometimes just inviting a student to ask the question -- how am I holding onto this idea -- is enough to start the process.

Sometimes the hardest thing to do as a teacher is to let someone walk away sadly, as Jesus did the rich young ruler.

Or to plant the seed, or water it, and let the student stomp away thinking you are stupid, evil, heretical, or worse... liberal.

I try to remind myself often that I was that student. I was the obnoxious fundamentalist who stood up in class and challenged the professor to just accept the biblical view. It was only as some professors had the grace to tolerate me and give me space to question that I was opened up to self-discovery... a journey that I hope will never end.

LeRon

David Worley

LeRon- Thanks for the post, it is very timely for me. You wrote: "My true self is yet to be discovered, is being discovered, as I allow my "self" to be found only in and by God."

This post in general and the quotation above in particular, strike right at the heart of what I am currently working on in my own spiritual formation. As I meditate "in" God and begin to more clearly see what I am grasping after, what I am holding on to, and what I am protecting from; I am increasingly coming to know the edge of a figurative cliff that is the jumping-off point of embracing my true self.

When I get clarity, even for fleeting moments, I begin to recognize how little I actually trust God and how desperate I am to secure my life on my own despite every experience (faithful as God is) that has proven contrary to this notion. Fundamentally, I believe that my false self (or functional self) is really required to be loved, appreciated, admired, useful, relevant, and generally accepted in the world. More theologically important though, is the reality that I operate as if my false self matters to God. The cliff reveals this stark reality to me every time I stand at its edge.

Currently, I am working on attempting to live out my day in continual meditation as I try to live with a greater sense of clarity regarding my grasping and self protection. I occasionally, for brief periods, even venture out and expose my true self wanting to believe and experience what I already know cognitively - that God radically and deeply loves me and that God faithfully opens up space for me to experience God’s love. The reality that my true self might be exactly what God desires is an exhilarating thought that also happens to be terrifying (delightful terror) because the reality of my soul is that while I cognitively assert one thing, I have not yet persuaded my soul to follow; but I am moving in that direction.

Thanks for the post LeRon and I look forward to further discussion on this topic as well as the two additions (illumination & union) that will follow. I appreciate the way you consistently and freely give yourself to the world around you. I have observed and benefited from you living out your theology in real and tangible ways and I am grateful for your “face” in my formation. You are one of the best examples I know of the power of the true self in being a contribution to the world. Thanks for sharing yourself on this blog; I am deeply grateful for the digital space you open up for all of us readers.

Kent

Leron -

Good words. "Mediating self discovery" and helping to open the learner's mind to the ways in which God can be met in the process of theological reflection (i.e. life) is the reason I began teaching (and what ultimately led me to doctoral work). For me as well, it was the patience of Kelly Clark (the philosopher) and one of my religion professors in college that opened the door for me to tentatively swim about in the world of ideas, questioning some of my long-held formulations and ultimately learning to live in the space of unanswered questions.

Likely the greatest turn for me in this regard was the time I spent in Israel. There I was introduced to a much less "Western" (forgive the generalization) way of looking at discipleship. In the rabbinic way of thinking (again, generalization) mystery is not only tolerated but embraced and sought. Heschle's reflections on awe and wonder in "Pursuit of Man" opened me to the possibility that confronting the unanswered questions can be a cause to worship, rather than fret, for it brings to awareness that God really is that great, unable to be completed comprehended. And that this reality should cause me to dance rather than fret. Inviting students into the world of God's "wonderful immensity" is why I love the classroom. I also think this is a reason why I enjoy Pannenberg (his emphasis on the infinite vs finite).

Thanks Leron! I look forward to future interactions.

Kent

Mike McLeod

Hi LeRon:
I always appreciate your thought-provoking posts knowing that your ultimate teleological trajectory for us is doxological. I do have some 'disturbing' questions. (1) Can we really deconstruct the self in the way you propose, as you say, "NOT to think and long after...all possible experiences, connections, desires, relations...."? It seems to me that we are so embedded culturally that we can never completely escape or purge it. I am to some extent a composite of the language given to me and the relationships that have 'faced' me. To purge all this seems to undo me, my 'self'. I can see where we need to heal the negative impact of these relationships where they no longer 'threaten' or 'seduce' ones self. Is this all you really mean? (2) Shouldn't we bring community into this purgation process? Ultimately Jesus says to love God AND OTHERS. I wonder about setting up a hard distinction between God and others. I am not talking in 'ontic' terms, I realize we must keep the hard distinction between the finite and INfintie. But what I am thinking about is how, more often than not, God shows up in the other to help us in our purgation process. For example, when I meditate, I will tend to use the same semantic range of language I currently have and will more than likely contemplate God in the same way I have become relationally wired. If it's just me and God, I seem stuck. But when I read, say, your blog site, God may be working through you, the other, in a salubrious way. So, I feel we need community in our purgation. Well, anyway, there you have it.

LeRon

Hi Mike,

On the first question, I only meant that during the process of meditation, while one is trying to focus only on God, it is difficult NOT to think of other things. I agree that we only live as we are related to other things, and you are right that my main point had to do with the way we relate to them.

On the second point, I of course agree. It is interesting that both extreme options came out in response to my post. One, that I was denying the importance of the inner self, and two, that I was denying the importance of the community.

This often happens when we shift from thinking in primarily substantial (or dualistic) terms to thinking in radically relational terms.

Mike, I can't remember which books I made you read when you were in my classes (wink ;)) ... but if you are interested in the way I emphasize the role of community in the transformational process, look at chapters 3-5 of "Transforming Spirituality."

Tony Mills

LeRon and everyone else I guess-
Yesterday I watched the new Marvel Comics movie "Ghostrider" and thought it very fascinating for this discussion. I don't know how it is in the comics, and the film AS a film is mediocre and leaves much to be desired, BUT I think it is worthy of note that one of the ways Ghostrider acts as a hero is to facilitate purgation in the human villains with whom he comes in contact. Most of the film is a humorous exercise in substance anthropology and spirituality, but there is one occasion on which, when coming upon a mugger in the middle of a crime, whom he then judges as guilty (this discernment is one of his powers), he forces him to stare in his eyes of fire (at night his head becomes a flaming skull) and the assailant suddenly realizes all of the ways in which he has hurt other people. Then, rather, than kill him, Ghostrider drops him and leaves him, presumably to be a changed man in light of this purgation. If the series continues, hopefully they will dig into this aspect more deeply.

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